why the jedi ghost is of young anakin?

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feitonglong
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why the jedi ghost is of young anakin?

Post by feitonglong » Thu May 19, 2005 11:47 pm

now that the saga is complete, i am still trying to figure out why sacul has edited out the late mr shaw sebastian and replace hayden ... the reason cant possbibly be that anakin died long ago when darth vader consumed him becos at the end of rotj it was the old man who decided to turn from the dark side and destroyed the emperor ... confusing this is ... :lol:

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Post by wmgan » Mon May 30, 2005 9:36 pm

I've seen a few theories for this on the 'net, most notably the "dual personality" theory that says that when Anakin turned to the dark side, he actually turned into a completely different personality called Darth Vader who shared his old memories (something like the vampires in Buffy mythology, I guess), and it is Darth Vader who saves Luke in the end, but the ghost is that of Anakin, who died more than twenty years earlier. I don't really buy this theory. Here's my own, which I've also posted in the Episode 3 forum...

Substituting Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen becomes acceptable if we suppose the following two things:

(1) The films are visual depictions of events that supposedly happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away (that is to say, they're documentaries rather than footage of the events themselves).

(2) The "ghosts" are felt through the Force rather than actually seen, which means that what we see in the films are merely visual representations of the unseen presences (for the benefit of audiences who can't sense them through the Force).

In other words, it doesn't really matter how the "ghost" of Anakin Skywalker looks like on film, and George Lucas could just as well have substituted Sebastian Shaw with himself if he thought film audiences would recognize him as the representation of Anakin Skywalker.

I next argue that it is not just acceptable, but perfectly logical to have Hayden appear as Anakin's ghost. To most audiences who view the six films in sequence, Hayden Christensen would be more recognizable as Anakin Skywalker than Sebastian Shaw. Even though it is Sebastian's face we see when Vader is unmasked, he looks very different with and without the "burned Humpty-Dumpty" make-up. The first time I saw the original version of ROTJ, I didn't recognize Anakin's ghost as played by the same guy who played the unmasked Vader (although I guessed it had to be him).
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Re: why the jedi ghost is of young anakin?

Post by masterjamous » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:27 am

xjedi wrote:now that the saga is complete, i am still trying to figure out why sacul has edited out the late mr shaw sebastian and replace hayden ... the reason cant possbibly be that anakin died long ago when darth vader consumed him becos at the end of rotj it was the old man who decided to turn from the dark side and destroyed the emperor ... confusing this is ... :lol:
May I share my humble deductions; after watching the new version of ROTJ DVD.


I believe Lucas being a cautious man that he is, has changed the ghost image from Shaw to Hayden for a necessary reason and not pandering to recent popular memory to his principal star of the show.

As far as I understand Star Wars universe mythos, the Light side has no place in the Dark side and vice versa. And this fundamental fact is absolute. A Jedi will be a Jedi and a Sith live as a Sith through and through. Good is good, evil is evil. But choice will be the catalyst.

Hayden's image represents the Jedi Anakin and Shaw's image represents Vader's Sith.
Remember the Guiness-Obi-wan told Luke that Vader "killed" his father Anakin. Of course he is speaking metaphorically, because the Jedi-light side spiritually died as Anakin-Hayden in an absolute manner when he turned to the dark side to become Vader-Shaw. Implying no goodness can exist in evil/wickedness and vice versa.

So after Vader died, and with redemption, he became a ghost-spiritual guide with Hayden's Jedi image and not Shaw's image because this image lived as Vader till physical death. This could be the reason to explain why Anakin-Hayden was "killed" by Vader-Shaw. And possibly the same reason for Lucas to make timely corrections to properly reflect the fundamental law in his mythos.

Whereas for Obi-wan's ghost image, we observe, remains intact as Guiness' and not McGregor's because Obi-wan lived and died as Jedi. Same with Yoda. From this standpoint, we may surmise Lucas was not pandering but executed this replacement within reason. Of course this correction cannot possibly have been done earlier as TPM, AOTC & ROTS was not in reality then.

Thanks for reading. Any comments?
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Post by Gandalf Fett » Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:28 pm

I have actually commented on this in another thread before and this is a change in ROTJ that I hate the most. I don't plan to discuss this in any further detail except to say that at the end of Ep III, Yoda said that this blue glow thing was a lost Jedi trait that Qui-Gon had learnt and Obi-Wan had to train to attain. So Yoda and Obi-Wan had access to Qui-Gon Jinn and the time to train to attain. So in theory, by right, Anakin shouldn't even be there anymore thanks to this explanation from GL.... :(
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Post by masterjamous » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:40 am

So i see, you're right, Jedi's have to TRAIN TO ATTAIN this ability of spiritual journey of manifestation. So meaning that at the end of show, Anakin should not appear at all but only Yoda & Obi-wan.

Then again .......... possibilities, lots of probable possibilites.
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Post by e3lipse » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:05 pm

Spirits are good
So maybe young anakin is shown because thats the last time he was a jedi and good
After all these years, I still love Clones
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jedi spirit

Post by Paul K » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:28 am

I still think they should not have changed sebastian to hayden. It really spoils it for me as I do believe that it was the old Vader (sebastain not Hayden) redeemed himself by throwing the emperor over, not hayden. Hayden for me, represents the change from innocence/youth to the dark side so in my book, he should not be there. Leave the original trilogy alone I say.

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Re: jedi spirit

Post by e3lipse » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:54 am

tk_110201 wrote:I still think they should not have changed sebastian to hayden. It really spoils it for me as I do believe that it was the old Vader (sebastain not Hayden) redeemed himself by throwing the emperor over, not hayden. Hayden for me, represents the change from innocence/youth to the dark side so in my book, he should not be there. Leave the original trilogy alone I say.

I got a remedy for that
Dun get the updated trilogy :P

Mine is still the good old cast :lol:
After all these years, I still love Clones
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Re: jedi spirit

Post by danchia » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:57 am

tk_110201 wrote:I still think they should not have changed sebastian to hayden. It really spoils it for me as I do believe that it was the old Vader (sebastain not Hayden) redeemed himself by throwing the emperor over, not hayden. Hayden for me, represents the change from innocence/youth to the dark side so in my book, he should not be there. Leave the original trilogy alone I say.

Well said, tk , well said !

I absolutely agree with you ....

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Post by Paul K » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:02 am

I was lucky enough to get the original triology on DVD before GL went and did it up again. I think it is a DVD burnt from the laser disc masters so it is quite good. I tend to watch that more than the new version of the triology.

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Post by e3lipse » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:26 am

tk_110201 wrote:I was lucky enough to get the original triology on DVD before GL went and did it up again. I think it is a DVD burnt from the laser disc masters so it is quite good. I tend to watch that more than the new version of the triology.
You mean the older DVD sets are gone ?
Only the new hayden ghost avaliable?
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Post by danchia » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:32 am

e3lipse wrote:
tk_110201 wrote:I was lucky enough to get the original triology on DVD before GL went and did it up again. I think it is a DVD burnt from the laser disc masters so it is quite good. I tend to watch that more than the new version of the triology.
You mean the older DVD sets are gone ?
Only the new hayden ghost avaliable?

Yes ... GL said that he would never release the old versions again in any format because the older versions were not his original vision and he only wants people to see the films as he had originall meant them to be . :roll:

Fans all over the world were hoping that he would release all 6 films in new (the tinkered, CGIed Special Editions ) and old versions so that we could compare the before and after versions , but it looks like that won't happen ....

I'd better quickly transfer my old LDs to DVDs before my ancient laserdisc player dies on me .....

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Post by Gandalf Fett » Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:48 am

Was the original ever released on DVD? I didn't know!?!?! I would have gotten it if it was. My versions of the original are the LD boxed set (with the book) and the widescreen videos only (and lent ROTJ to one of my English friend and the tape is still somewhere in England). DAMN! How on earth did I miss that.

I have purchased the latest DVD set but never watched ROTJ because of the entire Hayden ghost thinghie.
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Post by danchia » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:10 pm

Gandalf Fett wrote:Was the original ever released on DVD? I didn't know!?!?! I would have gotten it if it was. My versions of the original are the LD boxed set (with the book) and the widescreen videos only (and lent ROTJ to one of my English friend and the tape is still somewhere in England). DAMN! How on earth did I miss that.

I have purchased the latest DVD set but never watched ROTJ because of the entire Hayden ghost thinghie.
Don't worry , gandalf , the original versions were NEVER released on DVDs . They only exist as DVD-Rs bootlegged from old VHS or LD releases.

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Post by Dr EMH » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:06 pm

where's the ghost of Quigon?
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