Scalpers in Singapore
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vector_prime
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 3:37 pm
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got this very insightful post off SG Collect from yeongpio..a member there. Finally a post that makes sense 
(The following post is not meant to glorify or defend scalping, but an attempt to analyse it for what it is and examine if there is just cause for singling them out for treatment. I buy and sell toys at, below or above market prices depending on situation and demand. I sometimes buy more than 1 of the toys I like and totally ignore others, regardless of whether they're sought after or not.)
1. If the sore point is the so-called "artificial demand" that’s created as a result of 'scalpers' sweeping the items off the shelves, then army builders can sweep up all the toys too, why are they not as culpable? If the answer is because the ‘scalpers’ then re-sell their items at higher prices, then consider that at least they are re-releasing the items into the market, and there is another chance to buy the items. Army builders keep for their own use.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee that if the ‘scalpers’ don’t buy the toys, the toys will be sitting there for SGC members to buy. It makes little difference if 1 person buys 10 toys or 10 persons buy 1 toy each. If you’re not at the shop fast enough, you’re not there fast enough. Likewise, there is no basis for ‘scalpers’ to b***h about not being at a shop faster than SGC members and therefore they can’t buy all the toys. It cuts both ways and if people here are not at the right place at the right time, then it’s just hard luck.
And do the ‘scalpers’ truly create the market? What is their stock compared to what shops and departmental stores can bring in? Their abilities to corner the market and determine selling prices are over-rated. Big companies like TRU can affect supply (and hence prices) overnight, adversely for the sellers/'scalpers' if they choose to bring in certain items.
2. If the sore point is the higher price that ‘scalpers’ are re-selling the items at, then consider that there is no compulsion for anyone to buy at those prices. You are not happy with those prices? Look somewhere else. Sellers don’t owe it to buyers to sell at low prices, neither are buyers obliged to buy at high prices.
Furthermore, setting higher prices does not of itself make one a ‘scalper’. Consider the following situations: If a seller set an asking price of $1000 for a toy that can’t be found in the market/HTF, and which is worth only $50, is he a 'scalper'? I would say no, he’s just stupid. Then what if a seller starts auction bidding on a toy at $0.01 for a let’s say SAGA 06 Boba Fett, and it ends at $50, does that make him a 'scalper'? It was the bidders who made the selling price high, not the seller.
And the fact of the matter is, the price mark-up in any manufacture-to-retail process is always highest just before the item hits the market. That means that stores earn much more from you than you actually realize, more importantly probably way more than what 'scalpers' can hope to earn. If the sore point is profit, then brand the stores as ‘scalpers’, for setting the price at $x (thus achieving a profit margin of y%) and for not bringing in enough toys.
Which brings me to my next point: the risk that 'scalpers' take. Don’t forget, they are holding hard stock and therefore are taking a position and assuming a risk exposure vis-a-vis the market. Just as they can make money out of the venture, likewise they can lose money. Consider a situation when the price of the item actually falls from $20 to $12, and the ‘scalper’ decide to liquidate his position for whatever reason, by necessity or otherwise. Would those who were so quick to point fingers at the ‘scalper’ then be kind and say “I heard you bought at $20, I will pay you $20 instead, poor thing”? No, buyers will be all too happy to buy at low prices. A buyer cannot maintain a moral high ground and say that ‘scalpers’ profit from a situation and then turn around and buy an item from a seller at a price lower than what the seller originally paid for the item.
There is no rule that says those who only buy 1 of everything are therefore better or worse than those who buy 2, 3 or even 100 of the same thing. Everyone has their different style. Some may buy 1 initially, but subsequently buy more either because the objective of collecting that particular item has changed or a good deal is spotted. Some seek to complete the whole series, some can’t care less and want only certain items. Some are particular about packaging condition, some don’t give a damn about that. Some buy to invest, some buy to play. Some gripe about paint jobs, some only go for variants. Some may need to rationalize their collection to make space, others to finance subsequent purchases. Bottomline is, there is no one style of collecting is better than the other. This is a market, you sometimes buy/sell at higher prices than what the item originally retailed for, sometimes lower. There is nothing wrong with banding up against 'scalpers' but they have just as much right to buy the items as anyone else if they are willing and able to pay for them. The motives behind purchases, whether by 'scalpers' or others, are irrelevant. This is the real world of market forces, face it.
(The following post is not meant to glorify or defend scalping, but an attempt to analyse it for what it is and examine if there is just cause for singling them out for treatment. I buy and sell toys at, below or above market prices depending on situation and demand. I sometimes buy more than 1 of the toys I like and totally ignore others, regardless of whether they're sought after or not.)
1. If the sore point is the so-called "artificial demand" that’s created as a result of 'scalpers' sweeping the items off the shelves, then army builders can sweep up all the toys too, why are they not as culpable? If the answer is because the ‘scalpers’ then re-sell their items at higher prices, then consider that at least they are re-releasing the items into the market, and there is another chance to buy the items. Army builders keep for their own use.
Furthermore, there is no guarantee that if the ‘scalpers’ don’t buy the toys, the toys will be sitting there for SGC members to buy. It makes little difference if 1 person buys 10 toys or 10 persons buy 1 toy each. If you’re not at the shop fast enough, you’re not there fast enough. Likewise, there is no basis for ‘scalpers’ to b***h about not being at a shop faster than SGC members and therefore they can’t buy all the toys. It cuts both ways and if people here are not at the right place at the right time, then it’s just hard luck.
And do the ‘scalpers’ truly create the market? What is their stock compared to what shops and departmental stores can bring in? Their abilities to corner the market and determine selling prices are over-rated. Big companies like TRU can affect supply (and hence prices) overnight, adversely for the sellers/'scalpers' if they choose to bring in certain items.
2. If the sore point is the higher price that ‘scalpers’ are re-selling the items at, then consider that there is no compulsion for anyone to buy at those prices. You are not happy with those prices? Look somewhere else. Sellers don’t owe it to buyers to sell at low prices, neither are buyers obliged to buy at high prices.
Furthermore, setting higher prices does not of itself make one a ‘scalper’. Consider the following situations: If a seller set an asking price of $1000 for a toy that can’t be found in the market/HTF, and which is worth only $50, is he a 'scalper'? I would say no, he’s just stupid. Then what if a seller starts auction bidding on a toy at $0.01 for a let’s say SAGA 06 Boba Fett, and it ends at $50, does that make him a 'scalper'? It was the bidders who made the selling price high, not the seller.
And the fact of the matter is, the price mark-up in any manufacture-to-retail process is always highest just before the item hits the market. That means that stores earn much more from you than you actually realize, more importantly probably way more than what 'scalpers' can hope to earn. If the sore point is profit, then brand the stores as ‘scalpers’, for setting the price at $x (thus achieving a profit margin of y%) and for not bringing in enough toys.
Which brings me to my next point: the risk that 'scalpers' take. Don’t forget, they are holding hard stock and therefore are taking a position and assuming a risk exposure vis-a-vis the market. Just as they can make money out of the venture, likewise they can lose money. Consider a situation when the price of the item actually falls from $20 to $12, and the ‘scalper’ decide to liquidate his position for whatever reason, by necessity or otherwise. Would those who were so quick to point fingers at the ‘scalper’ then be kind and say “I heard you bought at $20, I will pay you $20 instead, poor thing”? No, buyers will be all too happy to buy at low prices. A buyer cannot maintain a moral high ground and say that ‘scalpers’ profit from a situation and then turn around and buy an item from a seller at a price lower than what the seller originally paid for the item.
There is no rule that says those who only buy 1 of everything are therefore better or worse than those who buy 2, 3 or even 100 of the same thing. Everyone has their different style. Some may buy 1 initially, but subsequently buy more either because the objective of collecting that particular item has changed or a good deal is spotted. Some seek to complete the whole series, some can’t care less and want only certain items. Some are particular about packaging condition, some don’t give a damn about that. Some buy to invest, some buy to play. Some gripe about paint jobs, some only go for variants. Some may need to rationalize their collection to make space, others to finance subsequent purchases. Bottomline is, there is no one style of collecting is better than the other. This is a market, you sometimes buy/sell at higher prices than what the item originally retailed for, sometimes lower. There is nothing wrong with banding up against 'scalpers' but they have just as much right to buy the items as anyone else if they are willing and able to pay for them. The motives behind purchases, whether by 'scalpers' or others, are irrelevant. This is the real world of market forces, face it.
* You should be more concerned with character than reputation because character is who you are, while reputation is merely what others think.
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
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SoloFalcon
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:06 pm
- Location: Western Singapore
I got a feeling that scaplers has lobang or insiders with the major departmental stores. Else how do they appear in force to sweep everything off the shelves.
If I know where to get Lego SW sets at a big discount of the RRP, I buy three sets, 1 to build, 1 to keep & 1 to sell perhaps at 10% of the RRP... this is okay right?
Ultimately it is up to the individual.
"Buyers Beware."
If you really must have, you will pay whatever price to get it.
That will justify scaplers actions.
If no one in the Singapore market supports the scaplers, they turn to overseas... nothing to stop them.
Hehehe my collection of SW items just when up by 2... total 3.
MR FX Vader Saber
Lego B-Wing & V-Wing
If I know where to get Lego SW sets at a big discount of the RRP, I buy three sets, 1 to build, 1 to keep & 1 to sell perhaps at 10% of the RRP... this is okay right?
Ultimately it is up to the individual.
"Buyers Beware."
If you really must have, you will pay whatever price to get it.
That will justify scaplers actions.
If no one in the Singapore market supports the scaplers, they turn to overseas... nothing to stop them.
Hehehe my collection of SW items just when up by 2... total 3.
MR FX Vader Saber
Lego B-Wing & V-Wing
Trust me princess~
It is true and happens all the time. sad to say.SoloFalcon wrote:I got a feeling that scaplers has lobang or insiders with the major departmental stores. Else how do they appear in force to sweep everything off the shelves.
You'll nv know what happens 'behind the scene'.
There may even be a possibility one or two staff are linked closely with scalpers, anything in demand, swept it off shelves and boxes and display on scalpers shops.
Sadly to say, there can be scalpers among us in a way.
People grabbed extra stuff which others want, not to collect, but rather to 'take hostage' of this particular item and demands an exchange of something else he/she needs. That really deprives other true collectors who want the item so much. These little things we nv realise, but from a certain point, it's really bad.
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vector_prime
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 3:37 pm
- Contact:
a funny thing happened yesterday
I was reading thru a popular local forum & a guy mentioned that he was happy to get a loose cody for $8 at CSC...right after that a few members replied coz they were either surprised how cheap it was or jeolous of this guy's luck. So they guessed right that it was an Animated Cody not the SAGA ones. Suddenly another reply came from a guy who I would named "D"....he says that if it's $8 for an animated cody....let's blacklist the seller.
Haha...Im the seller...but why blacklist me? is it because that a certain shop has the same item that sells it for $5 (that's our cost price)...the lousy $3 difference?. Is it possible that we might get it from the same source in Hongkong but that shop dropped the price coz it was'nt selling well (the shop used to sell it at $8 but not individually..u have to get it in a set of 10 - 2xcodys + 8 clones).
Actually there's no explaination needed...it's just a case of stupid collectors with too much time on their hands...but wait!..there's more to this story..
This same "D" guy who suggested to blacklist me also stopped & chatted with me & showed me an X-wing which he got from ebay & was proudly saying that he got it dirt cheap at $9.90US...& said that he's waiting for a buyer who's willing to pay $75sing for it. Ironic is'nt it? who's the scalper now?
Again..I dont care what you do in this toy scene...Im not bothered with all this as I have other more important stuff like HAVING A LIFE. I am a very reasonable guy...anybody who has met me knows that I'm cool with stuff...but I just cant take the stupidity of these type of people accusing others while they themselves are "double standards"...you know what I mean?
Yeah...$75 for a boxed POTF X-wing is a reasonable price..but so is a loose an $8 animated Cody. The DVD box set is the only way you can get it as it does'nt come in the carded version...& Im sure the X-wing will earn more than my puny loose figures....so stop complaining already. Even if I sell 10....that won't cover my table rent there...but I am happy...happy just to be there..feeling part of it & making new friends...No complaints man
Sorry to the mods for this long post...letting this out definitely cools me down & makes me feel better
I was reading thru a popular local forum & a guy mentioned that he was happy to get a loose cody for $8 at CSC...right after that a few members replied coz they were either surprised how cheap it was or jeolous of this guy's luck. So they guessed right that it was an Animated Cody not the SAGA ones. Suddenly another reply came from a guy who I would named "D"....he says that if it's $8 for an animated cody....let's blacklist the seller.
Haha...Im the seller...but why blacklist me? is it because that a certain shop has the same item that sells it for $5 (that's our cost price)...the lousy $3 difference?. Is it possible that we might get it from the same source in Hongkong but that shop dropped the price coz it was'nt selling well (the shop used to sell it at $8 but not individually..u have to get it in a set of 10 - 2xcodys + 8 clones).
Actually there's no explaination needed...it's just a case of stupid collectors with too much time on their hands...but wait!..there's more to this story..
This same "D" guy who suggested to blacklist me also stopped & chatted with me & showed me an X-wing which he got from ebay & was proudly saying that he got it dirt cheap at $9.90US...& said that he's waiting for a buyer who's willing to pay $75sing for it. Ironic is'nt it? who's the scalper now?
Again..I dont care what you do in this toy scene...Im not bothered with all this as I have other more important stuff like HAVING A LIFE. I am a very reasonable guy...anybody who has met me knows that I'm cool with stuff...but I just cant take the stupidity of these type of people accusing others while they themselves are "double standards"...you know what I mean?
Yeah...$75 for a boxed POTF X-wing is a reasonable price..but so is a loose an $8 animated Cody. The DVD box set is the only way you can get it as it does'nt come in the carded version...& Im sure the X-wing will earn more than my puny loose figures....so stop complaining already. Even if I sell 10....that won't cover my table rent there...but I am happy...happy just to be there..feeling part of it & making new friends...No complaints man
Sorry to the mods for this long post...letting this out definitely cools me down & makes me feel better
* You should be more concerned with character than reputation because character is who you are, while reputation is merely what others think.
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
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vector_prime
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 3:37 pm
- Contact:
the only reason Im still doing what I do for 17 years is because there are still people like you bro Freefly around & after all that it's still worth itfreefly wrote:I'm with you bro. IMO though nobody likes paying extra if they can get it cheaper (me inclusive), it's not necessary to carry our vehemence over the top & start accusing the seller
I can shoot him down by retaliating & posting about his dealings but its not my style & at the same time..I dont want to stoop that low...that just makes me no better than him
In my opinion...a seller who goes around peddling his stuff at flea markets without paying any rent is much worse than one that does...he earns more profit logically. But that's none of my business...afterall it's a free country
Making friends is more important to me...I really feel sad for them
* You should be more concerned with character than reputation because character is who you are, while reputation is merely what others think.
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
=PATIENCE HAS IT's REWARDS=
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e3lipse
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 9:02 pm
- Location: Clonetrooper Land - Where the clones troopers roam free
Actually he got it at 9.90 but plus shipping? Let's say it's 20USD . Round off to $30, so it's around $50.
And also, i just ran a check,
http://auctions.yahoo.com/bid_history/9 ... D=98221839
Bidding started at $30, then went up to 75 by means of bidding.
So it's the demand that made the price that way.
The animated Codys were sold because there's a demand for it too and that the rental for 2 tables/1table/halftable have to be covered.
So i conclude : No ones a scalper.
Time to move on
And also, i just ran a check,
http://auctions.yahoo.com/bid_history/9 ... D=98221839
Bidding started at $30, then went up to 75 by means of bidding.
So it's the demand that made the price that way.
The animated Codys were sold because there's a demand for it too and that the rental for 2 tables/1table/halftable have to be covered.
So i conclude : No ones a scalper.
Time to move on
After all these years, I still love Clones
"Young one, don't tell me what to do."
"Young one, don't tell me what to do."
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Mad Macross Man
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:23 pm
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Mad Macross Man
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:23 pm
it was meant to be seen ! so that "D" can be brought down !Commander Faie wrote:I think this thread should go down ah, what happen if there's ppl complaning if this thread is seen?
but I agree with u.. this is also a flame bait !
if this is sgcollect , this thread should not have existed at all !
now I understand why NO scalpers thread in sgcollect liao
so easy to flame... say this say that... it only BRING out the ugliness of someone... the anakin within so to speak !
