Mace Beats Sidious --- Planned Surrender Or Actual Victory?

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Mace Beats Sidious --- Planned Surrender Or Actual Victory?

Post by Handsome » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:55 am

Hi,

I am just wondering if the duel between Mace Windu and Darth Sidious was actually a real victory for Mace. From what we can see, Sidious easily wipes out 3 of the best swordsman the Jedi Order has ever produced.
Others also claim that the duel between Yoda and Sidious was also more rapid and heated compared to Mace and Sidious.

Some opinions state that Sidious could have manipulated his defeat to Mace in order to garner sympathy from Anakin, making it easier for him to turn Anakin over to the Dark side.

However, I feel that Mace emerged Victorious over Sidious due purely to his skill and unique style of Lightsaber combat : Vaapad. He is reportedly the best swordsman in the galaxy and his mastery of Vaapad enables him to channel the Dark Lord's hate and dark energy againist sidious.
More importantly, he is also my favourite character.

What do you people think?
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

Luke

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Post by assjedi » Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:43 pm

I have to agree with you there, Handsome.

But Sidious is a crafty one and saw that Anakin was there so he turned his attention to Anakin instead of trying to defeat Mace on his own.
"This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass."
"I'm not a Jedi. I'm just a man with a lightsaber... and a few questions.."
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Re: Mace Beats Sidious --- Planned Surrender Or Actual Victo

Post by Hiro » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:57 pm

Handsome wrote:Hi,

I am just wondering if the duel between Mace Windu and Darth Sidious was actually a real victory for Mace. From what we can see, Sidious easily wipes out 3 of the best swordsman the Jedi Order has ever produced.
Others also claim that the duel between Yoda and Sidious was also more rapid and heated compared to Mace and Sidious.

Some opinions state that Sidious could have manipulated his defeat to Mace in order to garner sympathy from Anakin, making it easier for him to turn Anakin over to the Dark side.

However, I feel that Mace emerged Victorious over Sidious due purely to his skill and unique style of Lightsaber combat : Vaapad. He is reportedly the best swordsman in the galaxy and his mastery of Vaapad enables him to channel the Dark Lord's hate and dark energy againist sidious.
More importantly, he is also my favourite character.

What do you people think?
Actually Vaapad doesn't channel opponent's anger into power, its Mace's own anger.
Mace did lose to his apprentice, who he taught Vaapad to, prior to Epi3. Depa Billaba fully tapped into the power of Vaapad, which caused her to fall to the dark side, Mace as the co-creator knows of this side effect, hence didn't tap so much into Vaapad's strength and lost to her. But managed to bring her back to the light, though she slipped into a coma which is why you don't see her on the council during Epi3.

With regards to whether Palpatine lost on purpose, I think he did.
Mace had to put a lot of power into Vaapad to keep up with Palpatine, and as Anakin neared the chancellor's office, he felt the force darkening drastically, stating how much of Vaapad Windu was using.

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Post by Handsome » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:33 pm

True. But mace windu was revered for his lightsaber skills and was said to be extremely powerful. As said by Anakin " as wise as master Yoda, as powerful as master windu"
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

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Post by Hiro » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:26 pm

I dunno... from my reading of novels... it seems that almost every jedi out there is a "renowned swordsman" or listed as "master swordsman"
Think its possible to list a few thousand who are revered swordsmen, and just a handful who aren't

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Post by Handsome » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:11 am

Nah. But mace still the best. Or at least stated only matched by Yoda palpatine and dooku.
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Post by assjedi » Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:29 pm

Handsome wrote:Nah. But mace still the best. Or at least stated only matched by Yoda palpatine and dooku.
To me, Ganner Rhysode is the best.

He killed countless Yuuzhan Vong by himself to let Jacen Solo escape.

He muttered "Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush, I don't give a damn. None shall pass."

The Vong had to bring down the roof, literally, before finally killing Ganner.
The Vong then honoured Ganner post-humously, stating that Ganner is the finest warrior they've ever faced and regarded him as a God.
"This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass."
"I'm not a Jedi. I'm just a man with a lightsaber... and a few questions.."
http://www.fightsaber.com/

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Post by Hiro » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:35 pm

But that's rather average to what a jedi can do, especially Form 3 practioners

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Post by assjedi » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:59 am

Hiro wrote:But that's rather average to what a jedi can do, especially Form 3 practioners
Yuuzhan Vong are almost impervious to lightsabers dude. Even Luke had difficulty defeating Vong warriors and that the Vong had to use heavy artillery to kill Ganner, is testament to his skill with the lightsaber and the Force.
"This threshold is mine. I claim it for my own. Bring on your thousands, one at a time or all in a rush. I don't give a damn. None shall pass."
"I'm not a Jedi. I'm just a man with a lightsaber... and a few questions.."
http://www.fightsaber.com/

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Post by Handsome » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:50 am

Nah but Anakin also stated. "as wise as master Yoda, as powerful as master windu" . Showing that mace windu was somewhat the icon of power. Showing him to be very powerful to be able to kick palpatines ass

Wiki also stated him to be the best swordsman in the galaxy. Which I believe is true.
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

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Post by Handsome » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:03 pm

Come on guys and chicks keep posting! Let me know what ya think. But some food for thought. Mace Windu as well as Palpatine are both extremely powerful folks.
Mace windu is probably younger and fitter than palpatine.

also, By moving battle to window edge palpatine had to use more force energy to stick to the edge and not fall.

Mace windu's mastery of all the seven forms of lightsaber combat as well as being the creator and sole master of vapaad could give him the upper hand.

Vapaad also allows him to channel dark energy into his strength and fighting style, making him able to then palpatines anger as well as his own into his prowess in battle.

On the other hand, palpatine is no white haired Santa Claus, he is the dark lord of the sith, being extremely powerful in combat and the dark side. He easily killed 3 skilled jedi masters within 10th seconda. Only getting his ass kicked by mace windu after a tough battle.
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

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Post by Handsome » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:15 pm

One more important point,

He was the only one able to see shatterpoints through the force.
Meaning that he can easily detect the weaknesses in his opponents defences and attack and easily defeat his opponent using his incredible and aggressive vapaad fighting style.

Beat that! Palpatine cannot..
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

Luke

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Post by Handsome » Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:10 pm

Anyway, if palpatine was so powerful, he could have killed mace within the first few seconds. And then focused all the strength on bringing out the darkside of Anakin in a duel. It would have probably not as easy to turn him but easy enough due to his strongly conficted feelings and desire to save padme. Like in the duel with dooku. Force him to use his anger. Mace windu s vapaad also countered palpatines dark.side power by channeling the dark side against him, as seen clearly by the reflection of lighting.
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

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Post by Hiro » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:57 pm

It was part of the plan... so that he can make Windu the scapegoat and easily turn Anakin, you don't seem to know the aftereffects of Order 66 and what happened much later to Windu's name

If he killed Windu a few minutes earlier, he'll have to rework on Anakin
The culling of the Jedi would be rendered illegal
The senate wouldn't be under his control as easily, plus he'll still have to deal with remainder of Jedi

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Post by Handsome » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:27 am

Nah. I think he would still live without an apprentice. Can just kill them all and execute order 66. Anyways Anakin was desperate to save padme and he himself is esentially power hungry.
No way palpatine can beat mace, the best swordsman in the galaxy.
"You'll find I'm full of surprises."

Luke

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